Those Who Hate Us

HauntWorld Exodus

This one is a bit intricate, with a long history. It centers around the Yahoo group "HauntWorld". There isn't even much hatred against Wolfstone/Dennis in this thread - although one of the players threatens me in the end.

This is actually a story about how three people react differently when placed in the same situation.

The HauntWorld group has been around for many years. It is a low-volume discussion group for those seriously into Halloween, many of them owning and operating haunts and haunt-related businesses. October and early November are peak times for such folks - working hard and stressed out. Even those who might be otherwise inclined to chat are seldom up to it during this time of year. And HauntWorld has never been a chatty group.

blackcat1354 Appears, Throws a Grenade, and Vanishes

Meet blackcat1354, somebody who joined HauntWorld four days before Halloween.

Subject: [HauntWorld] New Member
From: blackcat1354@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 07:45:16 -0400 (EDT)
To: hauntworld
Well,I don't remember applying for membership,but I guess I did LOL. Maybe it just took awhile for you to get around to my request. Anyway, I'm 55 and love Halloween and live in Oklahoma City,Oklahoma.I just wanted to say hi to everyone.
Vicki

That's the first appearance of blackcat1354, then going under the name of Vicki.

There was a subsequent posting by blackcat1354, a one-line response to somebody else's introduction:

Subject: Re: [HauntWorld] NEW MEMBER
From: blackcat1354@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 17:46:32 -0400 (EDT)
To: hauntworld
Your welcome lol.
-----Original Message-----
From: claryvette garcia
To: hauntworld
Sent: Wed, Oct 27, 2010 1:22 pm
Subject: Re: [HauntWorld] NEW MEMBER
AWWW. THANK YOU
*cL@rY*
________________________________
From: Corey Smith
To: hauntworld
Sent: Wed, October 27, 2010 11:55:33 AM
Subject: Re: [HauntWorld] NEW MEMBER
Welcome to the club
Regards Corey BLOOD SUCKER Smith

There you have the entire history of blackcat1354's interaction with HauntWorld. Two messages, 10 hours apart.

Then, suddenly...

Subject: [HauntWorld] LEAVING GROUP
From: "akasha_vladmir"
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 22:13:16 -0000
To: hauntworld
I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU ALL KNOW I HAVE DECIDED TO EXIT THIS GROUP SINCE I HAVE POSTED SEVERAL COMMENTS AND EVEN INTRODUCED MYSELF WITHOUT ANY KIND OF WELCOME FROM ANYONE, OR A "GO TO HELL", OR ANYTHING. I DON'T APRECIATE THIS AND I'M SURE I CAN FIND A GROUP WHERE THE MEMBERS IN IT ARE A LITTLE BIT MORE FRIENDLY THAN THIS JOKE OF A GROUP.

That's the last we heard of blackcat1354, now going by the name "akasha_vladmir". I guess that she simply hit the "Unsubscribe" link at the bottom one of the HauntWorld e-mails.

I find nothing wrong with somebody who subscribes to a group, finds that it doesn't suit their taste, and leaves. I do have a problem with blackcat1354 insulting everybody on the way out. And there was no need to shout. If it's not right for you, just leave quietly.

The "throw grenade and run" approach by blackcat1354 caused a number of responses, like:

Dont let the door hit you in the butt...Just go...
What the HELL is going on here. Either stick around or quit.

Jim Warfield, a god amongst haunters and owner of Raven's Grin Inn, politely pointed out:

Speaking only for myself, we are still having haunt customers coming through here and the few moments I can even think of getting on-line have begun to multiply.....

Greg Chrise joked about blackcat1354's complaint of not even being told to "GO TO HELL".

I didn't know telling people to go to hell was an option?
Okay, live a long disappointing, miserable, neglected life and then go to hell.

Which also got some replies:

Oooo, an incredibly childish, stupid flame war...
Wow! This is not what haunting is about. You should all be ashamed. We should all stick together and keep the childish egos out of it.
What an idiot. I didn't know he was the king of england and needed the red carpet treatment. Hit the road and stop talking about it .... Outside of that I hope everyones halloween was a scary one.

I didn't feel that I needed to be ashamed of anything. I did not dump on blackcat1354, nor had I welcomed her. So I clarified my feelings:

I wasn't particularly thrilled by the tone of the responses, but the original poster did start with a steaming plate of "childish". All caps, nobody welcomed me, you suck, I'm leaving.
Is it any wonder that such self-centered behavior resulted in some negative replies?

Dori Butterick Leaves More Gracefully

But blackcat1354, although gone, was not without supporters...

Subject: Re: [HauntWorld] LEAVING GROUP
From: dori butterick
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:40:28 -0800 (PST)
To: hauntworld
i agree not a friendly group at all
--- On Sun, 11/7/10, akasha_vladmir wrote:
...

Followed two minutes later by:

Subject: [HauntWorld] (unknown)
From: dori butterick
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:42:07 -0800 (PST)
To: hauntworld
leavivg group also felt very unwelcomed

Dori did not use the "throw grenade and run" approach of blackcat1354. She just agreed with blackcat1354 and then left, stating simply why. Compared to blackcat1354, this was gracefully done.

Dori never posted again. I guess that she simply hit the "Unsubscribe" link at the bottom one of the HauntWorld e-mails.

The Storm Continues

Dori and blackcat1354 were both gone, each in their own way. But the discussion about their behavior continued. Assorted comments came in, some on threads started by Dori, some of threads from blackcat1354:

Apparently, this group also has a lot of big babies too.
Awww that is sad that people feel that way. I don't think this is a unfriendly group just not real active. There are a couple of great Halloween forums out there if you want more activity. I'm sure most of you are familiar with them if not PM me.
not to sound rude but did it ever occur to you that maybe halloween is a very busy time for most of the people on this group. they have haunts to run all month long and dont have much time to get online. so please people stop acting so childish and complaining "me me me" thank you for letting me rant.

Since we had already lost two members on the blackcat1354 topic, Greg decided to look into the actual contributions made by blackcat1354.

Subject: [HauntWorld] Re: New Member
From: "Greg Chrise"
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 01:21:00 -0000
To: hauntworld
Just a little recap, this was Oct 27th 2010
--- In hauntworld, blackcat1354@... wrote:
> Well,I don't remember applying for membership,but I guess I did LOL.
> Maybe it just took awhile for you to get around to my request. Anyway,
> I'm 55 and love Halloween and live in Oklahoma City,Oklahoma.I just
> wanted to say hi to everyone.
>
> Vicki
Sun Nov 7, 2010 4:13 pm
> I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU ALL KNOW I HAVE DECIDED TO EXIT THIS GROUP SINCE I
> HAVE POSTED SEVERAL COMMENTS AND EVEN INTRODUCED MYSELF WITHOUT ANY KIND OF
> WELCOME FROM ANYONE, OR A "GO TO HELL", OR ANYTHING. I DON'T APRECIATE THIS AND
> I'M SURE I CAN FIND A GROUP WHERE THE MEMBERS IN IT ARE A LITTLE BIT MORE
> FRIENDLY THAN THIS JOKE OF A GROUP.
so, this Vicki gave this group a whole 11 days to impress her somehow. When I said I didn't know telling someone to go to hell was an option she had already deleted herself from membership. I checked. I'm sorry, (no I'm not that's a figure of speech) that's totally hillarious. Most of us have been on this group as an extention of Hauntworld Forums since 2003. None of us are little kids.
I had no idea that being a member of this group meant you had to work hard and in your spare time go all Mister Bo Jangles for who ever stops by? There are 1854 of you out there and you all dropped the ball here. It's all your faults, not mine.
It's a haunted house group. You might get some responces from time to time that might be what a monster would say. Deal with it.
Now that everyone is gone lets have some fun!
Greg Chrise

I got a kick out of Greg's "Mister Bo Jangles" comment. But I thought that he left out an important part of the timing: It's not just 11 days. It's which 11 days. So I chimed in again...

Subject: Re: [HauntWorld] Re: New Member
From: Dennis
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 19:20:07 -0800
To: hauntworld
And she dropped in at the busiest time of the year, days before Halloween, expecting us to drop everything?
On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Greg Chrise wrote:
> > Just a little recap, this was Oct 27th 2010

Donna Parish-Bischoff - Without Grace Or a Clue

Just as things were starting to calm down, this popped up:

Subject: Re: [HauntWorld] Don't Worry Davy.
From: Donna Parish-Bischoff
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 06:01:27 -0800 (PST)
To: hauntworld
I keep asking to unsubscribe at the bottom of all these e-mails and YET I still keep getting e-mails - remove me or I start reporting this site !

Now it's getting really funny.

Yahoo is one of the internet giants. Their "groups" feature supports thousands of different groups on a variety of topics. Every e-mail that Yahoo sends for every group has an "Unsubscribe" link at the bottom.

But unsubscribing is not instant and it is a two-part process. You click the link and it prepares an e-mail to yahoogroups requesting removal. You have to hit "send" on that mail. Then wait for it to be processed. Yahoo will send a confirmation e-mail asking "are you sure?" You have to respond to the confirmation. These additional steps are necessary to prevent pranksters from unsubscribing other people.

The unsubscription process isn't difficult. Dori and blackcat1354 managed to do it.

But Donna is clueless in many ways: she can't follow simple instructions that are known to work; she evidently expects instant service; and she is making demands and threats. I wonder how she would go about reporting "this site"? Would she attempt to report HauntWorld? HauntWorld just uses the same groups feature as a thousand other groups - nothing special about us. To whom would she report it? If this were a web site, she should contact the hosting ISP. I can see it now - "Yahoo, I need to complain about the naughty Yahoo Groups!"

Donna wasn't making a good impression.

Subject: Re: [HauntWorld] Don't Worry Davy.
From: "Angela"
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 14:40:13 GMT
To: hauntworld
Jeez...I think it's time for Larry to outright just kick this one out. I don't usually post to this group- just stick around until I need a little advice every now and again- but the DRAMA of this one below is starting to really annoy me..... Angela
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Donna Parish-Bischoff
To: hauntworld
Subject: Re: [HauntWorld] Don't Worry Davy.
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 06:01:27 -0800 (PST)
I keep asking to unsubscribe at the bottom of all these e-mails and YET I still keep getting e-mails - remove me or I start reporting this site !

But Donna wasn't done yet.

Subject: Re: [HauntWorld] Don't Worry Davy.
From: Donna Parish-Bischoff
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 07:20:56 -0800 (PST)
To: hauntworld
REMOVE ME NOW GOD DAMMIT!

Cursing and shouted demands won't make you any friends.

Subject: Re: [HauntWorld] Don't Worry Davy.
From: Andrews family
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 09:44:12 -0600
To: hauntworld
you got yourself on, remove your own damn self. Learn a few manners while youre at it. Sheesh....
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Donna Parish-Bischoff wrote:
> REMOVE ME NOW GOD DAMMIT!

Now she explains a little. She has been trying to use the Unsubscribe. She just screws it up.

Subject: [HauntWorld] unsubscribe me
From: Donna Parish-Bischoff
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 08:06:45 -0800 (PST)
To: hauntworld
I keep clicking on Unsubscribe me and I am never removed - I keep getting very bad e-mails from all of you and I want off the list I refuse to have manners when all of you are writing to me saying very filthy things
--- On Tue, 11/9/10, Andrews family wrote:
From: Andrews family
Subject: Re: [HauntWorld] Don't Worry Davy.
To: hauntworld
Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 10:44 AM
you got yourself on, remove your own damn self. Learn a few manners while youre at it. Sheesh....

Is Donna really getting e-mail off-list "saying very filthy things"? Or is she overreacting to on-list comments like "remove your own damn self"? The world will never know.

There are several ways that Donna could get off the HauntWorld group now: the HauntWorld group administrator could manually remove her; Yahoo tech support could remove her; she could properly use the Unsubscribe link on the e-mails; she could use the Yahoo groups membership tools on the Yahoo web site; or she could have another fit of apoplectic rage and die.

Fortunately for Donna, the better angels of HauntWorld flew to her aid. (Literally an angel!)

Subject: [HauntWorld] Re:(To Ddonna- instructions on leaving) Don't Worry Davy.
From: "Angela"
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 16:09:14 -0000
To: hauntworld
I agree...in fact let me help you out Donna. Here is the link to the group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hauntworld/
Go there and click Edit Membership. AT the VERY bottom of that page there is the option to to leave the group PLEASE hit it and leave us in Peace.
Sorry the group was not to your liking. I know you just wanted to possibly connect with other Halloween people. But on this group- Halloween is a BUSINESS to most of these people and everyone was busy during the time you expected to be greeted.
Hope you will find a group more willing to bending to your whims.
But you have issues and we don't (I don't) want them here.
Thank you and good bye!
--- In hauntworld, Andrews family wrote:
> you got yourself on, remove your own damn self. Learn a few manners while
> youre at it. Sheesh....

Another HauntWorld angel to the rescue:

Subject: Re: [HauntWorld] Re: unsubscribe me
From: Andrews family
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 10:33:06 -0600
To: hauntworld
send an email here
hauntworld-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
it will auto send you another email, asking you to confirm. If you dont get that one, check your junk mail. It will take about 14-20 minutes. If youre getting emails privately, this will not stop those....
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Angela wrote:
> Sweetie...hate to point this out...but you started it...just do what I just
> sent to you and you will be gone. I promise.
> > --- In hauntworld, Donna Parish-Bischoff > wrote:
>> I keep clicking on Unsubscribe me and I am never removed -
>> I keep getting very bad e-mails from all of you and I want off the list
>> I refuse to have manners when all of you are writing to me saying very
>> filthy things

It was nice of Angela and Andrews to send helpful and comforting e-mail.

All I could do was shake my head and marvel at the human condition:

Subject: Re: [HauntWorld] Re:(To Ddonna- instructions on leaving) Don't Worry Davy.
From: Dennis
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 11:37:10 -0800
To: hauntworld
A petulant child who was pissed off because nobody catered to her during our busy season. What a shocker to find that she can't follow simple removal instructions - like using the "Unsubscribe" link on the bottom of every single posting.
No wonder she is getting hate mail.

And then Donna made it personal for me by sending this e-mail:

Subject: being reported
From: Donna Parish-Bischoff
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 11:48:04 -0800 (PST)
To: wolfstone
Listen , stop harassing me - I unsubscribed- what is your problem ? I am reporting you for sending me insulting messages-

It is here that Donna Parish-Bischoff confirms her complete lack of understanding of the internet. Because I didn't send her any e-mail. I posted to the group. She was still subscribed, saw the message sent through the group, and was unable to tell the difference between a group message and an individual off-list e-mail. She also shows poor self-control for her reaction. Nor did I think that my observation constituted harassment.

If you know me, you know that I don't react well to threats.

Subject: Re: being reported
From: Dennis
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 12:10:06 -0800
To: Donna Parish-Bischoff
CC: hauntworld
I didn't send the message to you. I publicly pointed out that your behavior was - and is - childish.
Feel free to report my truth-telling to whomever you want.
I have added hauntworld to the CC list so that those few who might have cut you some slack in the past, know that you have chosen to escalate this.
In the meantime, you have earned the honor of being added to my page of "people who hate us" on my extremely popular Halloween site - hauntmaven.com
Gracious! It has been years since I added a hater! But I seem to get supporting e-mail regularly from people who find them amusing.
Hauntworld - Donna will soon be residing here:
http://hauntmaven.com/_ar/ThoseWhoHateUs.html
- Dennis
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Donna Parish-Bischoff wrote:
>> Listen , stop harassing me - I unsubscribed-
>> what is your problem ?
>> I am reporting you for sending me insulting messages-

Of course, I never heard back from Donna. Nor has her "reporting" had any effect.

This is a story about three people who subscribed to a Yahoo group and found it not to their liking. Each left the group in a different way. Dori politely said that she found the group unfriendly and left. "blackcat1354" screamed insults at everybody on the way out the door. And Donna couldn't follow simple directions; yelled and screamed; threatened. Only Donna earned a position on this page as a Wolfstone hater because she attacked me personally, but the others are part of the narrative.

I wasn't kidding when I told Donna that hauntmaven.com is popular. One fellow noted that you can hardly search for LEDs or pneumatics without one of my pages popping up. I ran into a man in Harbor Freight shopping for pneumatic components as he held a printed page from my web site. There is quote attributed to such characters as H.L. Mencken and Mark Twain: "Never pick a fight with a man who buys ink by the barrel." Donna will remain an object lesson for my readers.

Alex Ludlow attempts extortion, to get free electronic components

Original Request For Free Electronic Components, And For Me To Do His Homework For Him ASAP

From: Alex Ludlow [mailto:alexlud123@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 1:30 PM
To: Wolfstone
Subject: Strobe light, need materials for a cheap price,
I am writing in need of some infomation on strobe lighting, as i come across your website i was amazed to find a range of material to produce a light.
As a part of my GCSE course for control technology i am to design and make a strobe light and therefore will be in need of some materials and infomation. However reading the infomation given on your website i was in for a shock as i found out its not cheap to buy parts for a strobe light, is there anyway you could help with the materials im in need of.
That would be greatly appreiciated,
Alex,
P.s plz reply A.S.A.P
________________________________________________________________
It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today!
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

Wolfstone already has extensive information on how a strobe light works, including a schematic that can be used to build one. Alex's request for more "infomation" is tantamount to asking us to do the rest of his homework for him. Of course, "help with the materials" means "send me free stuff." If Alex had actually read the details provided by Wolfstone, he would already know where to get parts for free in his neighborhood.

My Response To Request For Free Electronic Components

From: Dennis
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 11:12 PM
To: Alex Ludlow
Subject: RE: Strobe light, need materials for a cheap price,
Sorry, but no.

Alex Attempts Extortion To Get Free Stuff

From: Alex Ludlow [mailto:alexlud123@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 2:26 PM
To: wolfstone
Subject: RE: Strobe light, need materials for a cheap price,
Not even any info ... nice website shame about the emails... if you give replies like that your not going to get anywhere in selling your goods... I'll give you 1 last chance to give a decent reply before i put banners up on the web saying what an awful website it is.

Alex thinks that Wolfstone is selling something, but nowhere on that site did we offer anything for sale. Maybe someday we'll offer tee shirts or something someday.

Oooohh! And he threatens me with banners. I am so afraid! I don't like being threatened, even by idiots. And I am in a much better position to put up embarrasing banners than he is.

I Demand An Apology

I know I won't get one, but I rather enjoy the chess game...

From: Dennis
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 8:57 PM
To: Alex Ludlow
Subject: RE: Strobe light, need materials for a cheap price,
My dear little Alex,
1) You violated the clear and simple contact instructions on my web site, and almost had both of your e-mails deleted by my spam filter.
2) Since my site lists numerous inexpensive strobe kits, two of which cost under US $10, your statement that "its not cheap to buy parts for a strobe light" is profoundly ignorant of material already clearly provided.
3) You had no right to ask me for free material for your class.
4) "plz reply A.S.A.P" is silly. Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
Despite your obvious flaws, I accorded you a polite ("Sorry") and factual ("no") answer.
Now you threaten me with adverse publicity for failing to satisfy your improper demands. This is known as "blackmail" and is a crime, even in your country. I wonder how you did on the GCSE Ethics course? Probably not so well.
I doubt that your campaign would be effective. A simple perusal of my site would refute your idiotic claim of "what an awful website it is." But blackmail is abhorrent and those who attempt to practice it are loathsome.
I demand an apology from you.
If I do not receive a prompt apology for your despicable behavior, I will be forced to take action to protect my good name, by exposing to my large readership the e-mail that you have sent me - including petulant whining, atrocious spelling, bad punctuation, and weak grammar.
Most Sincerely,
Dennis

Alex Invites Me To Post His Petulant Whining

From: Alex Ludlow [mailto:alexlud123@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 3:32 PM
To: wolfstone
Subject: Read what you write carefully, Mr Brains
To Mr Strop (cheer up don’t get so wound up about an email)
Firstly I didn’t want a kit I wanted a few parts in which it does state on your website "building a strobe light from scratch is expensive"
Secondly I’m really not offended by your idiotic remarks as your vocabulary isn’t too good either.
Thirdly you can do whatever you like to the email I sent you as you probably get a lot of those anyway.
Lastly I do realise there was a bit of blackmail going on in the last email I sent you. However I don’t think you should be complaining if you’re just going to send blackmail back. "If I do not receive a prompt apology for your despicable behavior, I will be forced to take action"
So do as you like as you have put yourself at the same risks as me.
Oh yeah if you think my punctuality and spelling is bad look at yours carefully, behaviour has a "u" in it.
So cheers darling, love you

Alex engages in misquotation: Nowhere on my site do I say "building a strobe light from scratch is expensive." I did say that building from scratch is usually more expensive than buying a kit. (I.e. Those who build from scratch to save money practice false economy.) Those two statements are very different. If Alex were paying attention, he would have figured out that buying a kit is an inexpensive way to get the parts, even if you use the parts to build something else.

When he got the part about spelling, I could only giggle. He lives such a sheltered life that he doesn't know that certain words are spelled differently in the U.K. and U.S.A.

My Response

I didn't send an e-mail back. Arguing with Alex is a waste of my time.

But it is really easy to add his e-mail to this page.

Alex has achieved his 15 minutes of fame. I get occasional e-mail from thankful readers of my web sites. And, once in a while, they mention Alex. Never in a good way.

Norma Calaway vents incoherent rage

Original Hate Mail

From: Norma Calaway [mailto:nfc@ipa.net]
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 6:17 PM
To: wolfstone
Subject: stupidness
I think ur crazy .U SHOULD LISTEN TO UR VIWERS MORE
OFFTEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will talk later.
from,angry reader

My Response

I found it odd that Norma accused me of being unresponsive, since

I had never heard of her before. If she had never written before, how could I be unresponsive?
I actually do try to respond in a timely fashion to all those who write.

I waited a couple of days for Norma to write again, with details of what bothered her, since she promised "I will talk later." But she didn't write again.

I decided to take action by dropping a short note to her ISP.

From: Dennis
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 11:32 PM
To: postmaster@ipa.net
Subject: one of your users is abusive
I received this incoherent abusive e-mail from a stranger who is evidently one of your users.
Please consider this a formal complaint against this individual, and begin whatever disciplinary steps are necessary. Suspending her account might be good.
-----Original Message-----
From: Norma Calaway [mailto:nfc@ipa.net]
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 6:17 PM
To: wolfstone
Subject: stupidness
I think ur crazy .U SHOULD LISTEN TO UR VIWERS MORE
OFFTEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will talk later.
from,angry reader

I never received a response from the ISP, nor anything more from Norma. I wasn't really expecting anything. But I hope that her actions had some consequences.

Steve Pickering vents incoherent rage

Original Hate Mail

From: Steve Pickering [mailto:stevepml@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 11:12 AM
To: wolfstone
Subject: whf
Wot da fuck were u thinking this doesn’t have ne sounds of lighting for christ sake u weirdo

My Response

It didn't look like this guy was interested in dialog, so I just took the next step of writing to his ISP.

From: Dennis
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 9:19 AM
To: abuse@optusnet.com.au
Subject: one of your users is abusive
Well, it's not spam, but one of your users sent me an unsolicited crude and abusive e-mail.
Would you be so kind as to look into it and find out what is his problem?
Thank you.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Pickering [mailto:stevepml@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 11:12 AM
To: wolfstone
Subject: whf
Wot da fuck were u thinking this doesn’t have ne sounds of lighting for christ sake u weirdo
-----Original Headers-----
Status: U
Return-Path:
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Received: from bert (c17929.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au [211.28.173.30]) by mail014.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with SMTP id h4A6DSN31328 for ; Sat, 10 May 2003 16:13:28 +1000
From: "Steve Pickering"
To:
Subject: whf
Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 04:12:00 +1000
Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01C316AA.4E2B0740"
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ISP Investigates

I was pleasantly surprised when the ISP responded.

From: abuse@optushome.com.au [mailto:abuse@optushome.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 9:58 PM
To: wolfstone
Subject: Re: [TT#6281374] one of your users is abusive
Dear Sir/Madam,
Thank you for your email.
Before we can take further action, can you please advise the reason why the email was sent to you or why the conversation in the email resulted in this type of language or form of abuse. If the correspondence of this email you have recieved is of a personal, where you know who the user is personally, we cannot take action against them as this is a personal discussion which is unrelated to a breach of service.
Regards,
Dion
OptusNet Cable Technical Support
Abuse & Security Team
Ph: 1300 300 693
Support: cablesupport@optusnet.com.au
Abuse: abuse@optushome.com.au

My Response

From: Dennis
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 6:55 AM
To: abuse@optushome.com.au
Subject: RE: [TT#6281374] one of your users is abusive
As I said in the original complaint, the offensive e-mail was unsolicited. I had never heard of the guy before, and suddenly he sends me an e-mail saying
> Wot da fuck were u thinking this doesn’t have ne sounds of lighting for
> christ sake u weirdo
There was no previous conversation, and I have no idea why he's upset.
If he was a little more explicit about what is bothering him, we could have a dialog. But there isn't much here to work with.

ISP Responds

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James Gilmore accuses us of plagiarism

Original Hate Mail

From: James Gilmore [mailto:gilmore123@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 7:58 PM
To: wolfstone
Subject: Nice Halloween Site
Hey,
Nice halloween Site why don't you just copy all of Larry Lund's Halloween projects! Come on at least give the guy some credit for all the ideas you stole from him. It's one thing to be creative it another to rip people off and take the credit.
James Gilmore

My Response

I actually sent a first response that tersely said that James was wrong. He never responded to that. This follow-up response goes into detail as to why James is wrong.

From: Jack of Shadows
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 10:59 PM
To: James Gilmore
Subject: RE: Nice Halloween Site
I was thinking about your accusation, so I popped over the Larry's page to do a comparison.
-- SIMILARITIES --
We both have rooftop spiders. His is static, made from a wooden spool and pieces of an artificial Christmas tree. Mine is animated and made from PVC pipe. According to Larry's page, his was made in 1999, same year as mine. Other than 1999, roof, and spider these projects have nothing in common.
We both have a witch with cauldron. His is life-size, and animated to stir the pot. Mine is a static table centerpiece, with an ultrasonic fogger. Not that similar.
Larry and I both have Flying Crank Ghosts. I don't credit Doug Ferguson, the inventor, but neither do I tell how to build one. I do tell how to build a rather nice stand for IronMan's version.
We both have graveyards. I spend a lot of time telling people exactly how to copy our tombstones, if they so desire. I see no directions for that on Larry's page.
We both discuss the use of screen door closers as pneumatic cylinders. This project has been on the Halloween list for ages; I don't know the originator. Evidently Larry doesn't either - he gives no credit. I first used one in 1999. The web page showing how to adapt one came later. If memory serves me, Larry and I put up our pages at about the same time, in response to Halloween List newbies who had trouble "getting it". I think my page does a better job. You are welcome to disagree.
The Pumpkin Popup is similar to Carl Chetta's Trash Can Trauma, but with different decor and mechanism. I would say that we were inspired by Carl, but didn't steal the idea from Larry.
And that's where the similarity ends.
-- LARRY HAS --
Larry has some projects that I don't: A static creature figure breaking out of the ground.
Larry credits Carl Chetta for the Leaping Loafer, Hoover, Payback Pumpkin, Mail box trauma, Trash Can Trauma, PVC pneumatic cylinder, and The Can.
By the way, I didn't see Larry giving anybody credit for the Bottomless Pit (a mirror effect that has been around for ages) or Jacobs Ladder.
-- I HAVE --
I have some projects that Larry doesn't: extensive work on lightning, strobes, color organs, simulating flickering flames, foam tools, giant web, plaster castings, popup skeleton, Mad Monk, sound systems, modified Boris, HAM, etc.
Our cemetery fence is nice; Larry doesn't seem to have one. Not only do I admit that the idea is not original, I went to great lengths to find the originator and point the reader to alternative implementations.
We also provide a lot of technical information: black lights, fog machines, bubble machines, snow machines, X-10, DMX, power wiring, compressors, relays, etc.
I spent a lot of time researching and writing about flicker. The page highlights techniques from many places - and gives credit for the origins. I'm quite proud of that page, and don't think that there is anything like it in the web.
-- CONCLUSION --
There's a lot of stuff out on the web. Much of it is similar.
I respect and appreciate Larry's effort to publish haunt projects. I think I do a good job, too; sometimes arguably better.
I am not a thief. You are wrong.
Would you care to apologize?

His Reply

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